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	<title>Comments on: Would Steam Points Work?</title>
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	<link>http://www.doolwind.com/blog/would-steam-points-work/</link>
	<description>Pragmatic Thoughts On Game Development</description>
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		<title>By: toughnut</title>
		<link>http://www.doolwind.com/blog/would-steam-points-work/comment-page-1/#comment-771</link>
		<dc:creator>toughnut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=254#comment-771</guid>
		<description>Steam points is a terrible idea.  How is this helpful to the consumer?  They get to earn interest on my money that still in the form of points in their system.

No.  There is nothing good about a point system.

For gifts you can buy a Visa gift card with $50 bucks on it.  Or something like that.  At least that can be spent anywhere that takes Visa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steam points is a terrible idea.  How is this helpful to the consumer?  They get to earn interest on my money that still in the form of points in their system.</p>
<p>No.  There is nothing good about a point system.</p>
<p>For gifts you can buy a Visa gift card with $50 bucks on it.  Or something like that.  At least that can be spent anywhere that takes Visa.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.doolwind.com/blog/would-steam-points-work/comment-page-1/#comment-770</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 11:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=254#comment-770</guid>
		<description>I can see the value of points purely from the gift voucher point of view. The author of the excellent book &quot;predictably irrational&quot; posits that we live in two distinct worlds - one of &quot;social&quot; norms and one of &quot;market&quot; norms. As soon as money is mentioned we immediately switch to &quot;market&quot; mode where we are either a buyer or seller and rules appropriate to buying and selling govern our actions. Imagine going to your mother-in-laws house and having a great dinner and when everyone&#039;s full and happy you stand up and pull out your wallet. &quot;That was great Janice, how much do I owe you.&quot; Giving money makes a gift a transaction.

However I really can&#039;t get with the idea of exchanging money for something that&#039;s less flexible than money. Especially with the side effects of obfuscation and inflexibility above. I swear that some mathematician has earned his PHD working out exactly how to organise microsoft points and game prices so you must continue to buy cards or forever feel like you are losing out because you have *Not quite enough* to buy that next game.

Also, it&#039;s possible to look at one of your statements about security differently. While the purchase of steam points would be through paypal, this doesn&#039;t completely relieve Valve of it&#039;s security concerns.

Holding steam points - which are effectively money - makes Valve a holder of credit which they still need to protect as though it was in your bank. Microsoft and Apple seem to manage it ok of course, so no reason why Valve couldn&#039;t. But I do think that purchasing points through Paypal falls short of tying up the security question. The points that you purchase still have to be held in safekeeping by Valve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see the value of points purely from the gift voucher point of view. The author of the excellent book &#8220;predictably irrational&#8221; posits that we live in two distinct worlds &#8211; one of &#8220;social&#8221; norms and one of &#8220;market&#8221; norms. As soon as money is mentioned we immediately switch to &#8220;market&#8221; mode where we are either a buyer or seller and rules appropriate to buying and selling govern our actions. Imagine going to your mother-in-laws house and having a great dinner and when everyone&#8217;s full and happy you stand up and pull out your wallet. &#8220;That was great Janice, how much do I owe you.&#8221; Giving money makes a gift a transaction.</p>
<p>However I really can&#8217;t get with the idea of exchanging money for something that&#8217;s less flexible than money. Especially with the side effects of obfuscation and inflexibility above. I swear that some mathematician has earned his PHD working out exactly how to organise microsoft points and game prices so you must continue to buy cards or forever feel like you are losing out because you have *Not quite enough* to buy that next game.</p>
<p>Also, it&#8217;s possible to look at one of your statements about security differently. While the purchase of steam points would be through paypal, this doesn&#8217;t completely relieve Valve of it&#8217;s security concerns.</p>
<p>Holding steam points &#8211; which are effectively money &#8211; makes Valve a holder of credit which they still need to protect as though it was in your bank. Microsoft and Apple seem to manage it ok of course, so no reason why Valve couldn&#8217;t. But I do think that purchasing points through Paypal falls short of tying up the security question. The points that you purchase still have to be held in safekeeping by Valve.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://www.doolwind.com/blog/would-steam-points-work/comment-page-1/#comment-769</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=254#comment-769</guid>
		<description>Doolwind, just curious, is this Steam Points as well as the current system or instead of. I personally don&#039;t have too much of an issue with points systems, but I do like the fact that on Steam I can tell exaclty how much money I&#039;m spending.

Also I&#039;m curious about the initial cost of games being lower point. Could you spell that out a bit more clearly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doolwind, just curious, is this Steam Points as well as the current system or instead of. I personally don&#8217;t have too much of an issue with points systems, but I do like the fact that on Steam I can tell exaclty how much money I&#8217;m spending.</p>
<p>Also I&#8217;m curious about the initial cost of games being lower point. Could you spell that out a bit more clearly?</p>
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		<title>By: Fortyseven</title>
		<link>http://www.doolwind.com/blog/would-steam-points-work/comment-page-1/#comment-768</link>
		<dc:creator>Fortyseven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=254#comment-768</guid>
		<description>Seriously, encouraging in-game micro-transactions makes my eyes roll back into my skull.

That aside, the whole &quot;points&quot; thing on XBox and Wii irritates the shit out of me.  They inevitably pull this crap where they only offer certain price-points, and the games themselves are almost always priced slightly out of sync with that so you&#039;re forced to buy excess points which encourages you spend more since you don&#039;t want the points going to waste.

If I could do a straight X points for X dollars purchase, it wouldn&#039;t *quite* so irritating, but there&#039;s no extra profit in that, of course. :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, encouraging in-game micro-transactions makes my eyes roll back into my skull.</p>
<p>That aside, the whole &#8220;points&#8221; thing on XBox and Wii irritates the shit out of me.  They inevitably pull this crap where they only offer certain price-points, and the games themselves are almost always priced slightly out of sync with that so you&#8217;re forced to buy excess points which encourages you spend more since you don&#8217;t want the points going to waste.</p>
<p>If I could do a straight X points for X dollars purchase, it wouldn&#8217;t *quite* so irritating, but there&#8217;s no extra profit in that, of course. <img src='http://www.doolwind.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://www.doolwind.com/blog/would-steam-points-work/comment-page-1/#comment-767</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=254#comment-767</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with the thought that &#039;money is pretty good at being money&#039;.  Why do we give people gift cards instead of cash? Perhaps because of the socially unacceptable stigma of cash compared to an explicit gift, which must be redeemed?  I&#039;m sure the recipient would always have preferred plain cash as it maximizes opportunities.

All &#039;points&#039; systems ever attempt to do is hide or manipulate the true cost of something.  It effectively allows manipulation of the money system by setting the exchange rate.  In the case of MS Points for Xbox purchases, the exchange rate was set unfairly many years ago so for example, the Australian dollar is worth ~60c, not ~90c.  Because purchases of points has to occur with real money, the cost of micro payments is no different than recharging a smart card or paying a tab (accumulated bill).

The only time I see a benefit to (some) customers is when the world market is split into regions and some regions, based on cost of living etc are given cheaper price points.  This however flies in the face of free trade and is illegal to enforce in countries like Australia. Australian consumers have the right under the Trade Practices Act to outsource their goods and services from foreign sources just as businesses do.  Region pricing already occurs for both retail and online sales (for Steam products!), so even this argument is invalid.

The value and advantages all lie in the publishers court.  When people carry cash in their wallet/purse, they tend to spend it.  When spare points are lying around they are more likely to be spent.  Turning cash into a retail product allows more people to participate, which will persist as long as &#039;online trade&#039; is a novel or new concept.  Selling large blocks of points to be spent in tiny quantities over time can disassociate a customer from the true cost of their habitual spending, in the same way tokens and tickets can assist gambling machines.  Finally, as bankers know, manipulating the cost of money enables a massive advantage to whoever can pull off that charade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with the thought that &#8216;money is pretty good at being money&#8217;.  Why do we give people gift cards instead of cash? Perhaps because of the socially unacceptable stigma of cash compared to an explicit gift, which must be redeemed?  I&#8217;m sure the recipient would always have preferred plain cash as it maximizes opportunities.</p>
<p>All &#8216;points&#8217; systems ever attempt to do is hide or manipulate the true cost of something.  It effectively allows manipulation of the money system by setting the exchange rate.  In the case of MS Points for Xbox purchases, the exchange rate was set unfairly many years ago so for example, the Australian dollar is worth ~60c, not ~90c.  Because purchases of points has to occur with real money, the cost of micro payments is no different than recharging a smart card or paying a tab (accumulated bill).</p>
<p>The only time I see a benefit to (some) customers is when the world market is split into regions and some regions, based on cost of living etc are given cheaper price points.  This however flies in the face of free trade and is illegal to enforce in countries like Australia. Australian consumers have the right under the Trade Practices Act to outsource their goods and services from foreign sources just as businesses do.  Region pricing already occurs for both retail and online sales (for Steam products!), so even this argument is invalid.</p>
<p>The value and advantages all lie in the publishers court.  When people carry cash in their wallet/purse, they tend to spend it.  When spare points are lying around they are more likely to be spent.  Turning cash into a retail product allows more people to participate, which will persist as long as &#8216;online trade&#8217; is a novel or new concept.  Selling large blocks of points to be spent in tiny quantities over time can disassociate a customer from the true cost of their habitual spending, in the same way tokens and tickets can assist gambling machines.  Finally, as bankers know, manipulating the cost of money enables a massive advantage to whoever can pull off that charade.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Snuffle</title>
		<link>http://www.doolwind.com/blog/would-steam-points-work/comment-page-1/#comment-766</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Snuffle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 04:43:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=254#comment-766</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d really like to see Steam as a subscription service, ala Gametap</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d really like to see Steam as a subscription service, ala Gametap</p>
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		<title>By: bleevo</title>
		<link>http://www.doolwind.com/blog/would-steam-points-work/comment-page-1/#comment-765</link>
		<dc:creator>bleevo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 02:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=254#comment-765</guid>
		<description>I find it hard to believe that steam points would benefit consumers.

Non currency based purchase systems like msft points are used to hide the real cost of items and control fluctuations in currency which allow consumers to purchase games at cheaper rates.

Money is already pretty good at being money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it hard to believe that steam points would benefit consumers.</p>
<p>Non currency based purchase systems like msft points are used to hide the real cost of items and control fluctuations in currency which allow consumers to purchase games at cheaper rates.</p>
<p>Money is already pretty good at being money.</p>
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