Comments on: What The Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Means For The Games Industry http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/ Pragmatic Thoughts On Game Development Fri, 27 Jan 2012 00:53:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: David Gillespie http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-681 David Gillespie Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:48:08 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-681 Bleevo that is gold :) Bleevo that is gold :)

]]> By: bleevo http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-680 bleevo Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:11:21 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-680 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koM4wyfCA_c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koM4wyfCA_c

]]> By: bleevo http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-679 bleevo Wed, 10 Jun 2009 00:09:13 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-679 I have well and truly got my monies worth from L4D1 and will pay for the second installment. I agree that valve promised a lot of things in L4D1 that are in L4D2 but at the end of the day they are a company and companies like to make profits. I have paid much more for less gameplay time than what I will pay for L4D1 and 2 combined. I have well and truly got my monies worth from L4D1 and will pay for the second installment. I agree that valve promised a lot of things in L4D1 that are in L4D2 but at the end of the day they are a company and companies like to make profits.

I have paid much more for less gameplay time than what I will pay for L4D1 and 2 combined.

]]> By: Doolwind http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-678 Doolwind Tue, 09 Jun 2009 21:19:51 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-678 David Gillespie- I agree that the "Big 5" list are both PC-centric and heavily Western. That is primarily because the people I've spoken to within the industry have a strong focus on both of these. This boycott has a heavy focus on the "game vs cash" issue as it raises the issue of sequel versus expansion. The former generally generates more cash, while fragmenting the market. I comletely agree that Valve have set an incredible example with supporting the community. Some of the backlash may infact be from the perceived removal of content. I would argue though that most of the other Big 5 companies have given a similar level of suppport. Starcraft is a great example of a game that is still being patched over 10 years after release. Relic have an entire network dedicated to their modding community. David Gillespie-

I agree that the “Big 5″ list are both PC-centric and heavily Western. That is primarily because the people I’ve spoken to within the industry have a strong focus on both of these.

This boycott has a heavy focus on the “game vs cash” issue as it raises the issue of sequel versus expansion. The former generally generates more cash, while fragmenting the market.

I comletely agree that Valve have set an incredible example with supporting the community. Some of the backlash may infact be from the perceived removal of content.

I would argue though that most of the other Big 5 companies have given a similar level of suppport. Starcraft is a great example of a game that is still being patched over 10 years after release. Relic have an entire network dedicated to their modding community.

]]> By: David Gillespie http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-677 David Gillespie Tue, 09 Jun 2009 13:32:16 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-677 Dools, love your work :) I have to question your "Big 5" however. Of the developers listed, Relic, Blizzard and Bioware are owned by major publishers (THQ, Activision-Vivendi and EA respectively). Bethesda self-publishes, I believe Valve does the same and has a distribution deal with EA. To make the argument about games vs. cash is to, I feel, trvialise the issue somewhat. Companies in Valve and Bethesda's positions are much more reliant on generating new sources of revenue, whereas other studios are given operational budgets within which they need to work. This immediatly pegs them at different levels, though still does not stop the better funded companies from releasing incomplete games. Also, while I realise the list of devs above is hardly the point, it is a fairly PC-centric (and therefore Western list). I feel saying the above companies form the backbone of the industry is over-stating their role somewhat (however amazing some of the games are they've released). I'm sure Cliffy B would be very upset to see he was not among your greats :) Your last paragraph is an issue that each art form has gone through before us; literature, visual art, film and music have all done battle on the art vs. money ground, the difference is those mediums have been around long enough to be in a place now where they can balance the interests of a variety of stakeholders. That doesn't make it right, but as this industry continues to mature it is going to happen. As a last point, Valve have set an incredible example when it comes to releasing and supporting free content for their community. Would it be fair to suggest part of this backlash is people complaining about the perceived removal of content yet to be created? Who among (and this is a genuine quesiton, not a shot) the other Big 5 have proffered the kind of support for the community that Valve have over the past decade? Dools, love your work :) I have to question your “Big 5″ however. Of the developers listed, Relic, Blizzard and Bioware are owned by major publishers (THQ, Activision-Vivendi and EA respectively). Bethesda self-publishes, I believe Valve does the same and has a distribution deal with EA.

To make the argument about games vs. cash is to, I feel, trvialise the issue somewhat. Companies in Valve and Bethesda’s positions are much more reliant on generating new sources of revenue, whereas other studios are given operational budgets within which they need to work. This immediatly pegs them at different levels, though still does not stop the better funded companies from releasing incomplete games.

Also, while I realise the list of devs above is hardly the point, it is a fairly PC-centric (and therefore Western list). I feel saying the above companies form the backbone of the industry is over-stating their role somewhat (however amazing some of the games are they’ve released). I’m sure Cliffy B would be very upset to see he was not among your greats :)

Your last paragraph is an issue that each art form has gone through before us; literature, visual art, film and music have all done battle on the art vs. money ground, the difference is those mediums have been around long enough to be in a place now where they can balance the interests of a variety of stakeholders. That doesn’t make it right, but as this industry continues to mature it is going to happen.

As a last point, Valve have set an incredible example when it comes to releasing and supporting free content for their community. Would it be fair to suggest part of this backlash is people complaining about the perceived removal of content yet to be created? Who among (and this is a genuine quesiton, not a shot) the other Big 5 have proffered the kind of support for the community that Valve have over the past decade?

]]> By: Doolwind http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-676 Doolwind Tue, 09 Jun 2009 10:25:37 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-676 hemebond- I agree that developers have done far worse, however no game has had this kind of boycott. Also, it's not so much about what Valve did, but the strong (and mature) reaction too it. This "little boycott" is becoming bigger by the day. hemebond-

I agree that developers have done far worse, however no game has had this kind of boycott. Also, it’s not so much about what Valve did, but the strong (and mature) reaction too it.

This “little boycott” is becoming bigger by the day.

]]> By: Marble http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-675 Marble Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:48:25 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-675 "A group of disgruntled games"? I'm really hoping Skynet isn't involved here - that's one AI you don't want having tantrums... ;) From the L4D2boycott boycott page: "Therefore, we - the members of this Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott - promise to abstain from the purchase of Left 4 Dead 2 until our requests are addressed." ...or it reaches the bargin bin? That's were I buy most of my games these days... Damn you full priced Supreme Commander! :P “A group of disgruntled games”? I’m really hoping Skynet isn’t involved here – that’s one AI you don’t want having tantrums… ;)

From the L4D2boycott boycott page:
“Therefore, we – the members of this Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott – promise to abstain from the purchase of Left 4 Dead 2 until our requests are addressed.”

…or it reaches the bargin bin? That’s were I buy most of my games these days… Damn you full priced Supreme Commander! :P

]]> By: hemebond http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-674 hemebond Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:40:38 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-674 What a load of rubbish. Developers have done far "worse" than this and seen very little hit on their sales. My prediction is these gamers will forget about this little boycott when the game is released. What a load of rubbish. Developers have done far “worse” than this and seen very little hit on their sales. My prediction is these gamers will forget about this little boycott when the game is released.

]]> By: Doolwind http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-673 Doolwind Mon, 08 Jun 2009 20:23:00 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-673 Fortyseven- Thanks for the link and quote. I'm also glad they've trimmed the fat and kept a clear, concise list of problems. Valve need to take some time before making an official response and decide exactly where they want to stand on this situation. Fortyseven-

Thanks for the link and quote. I’m also glad they’ve trimmed the fat and kept a clear, concise list of problems.

Valve need to take some time before making an official response and decide exactly where they want to stand on this situation.

]]> By: Fortyseven http://www.doolwind.com/blog/what-the-left-4-dead-2-boycott-means-for-the-games-industry/comment-page-1/#comment-672 Fortyseven Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:59:30 +0000 http://www.doolwind.com/blog/?p=102#comment-672 Some of the bullet points I saw were directed at the design of the game itself (being daytime, in the South, 'boring characters', etc.), and were completely outside the scope of the main issue. That irritated me a bit... Actually, now that I've checked out the page again, it looks like they trimmed all the fat I was bitching about and actually got right down to the important parts. Excellent. Now I can join the group and not feel stupid. ;) Anyway, I was a bit dismayed by one of Valve's explanations saying they were simply trying out different distribution models: : "There's definitely not a change in policy," said : Leonard in response to Gamasutra's inquiries as to : whether this move represents a new direction for : Valve's multiplayer efforts. : He pointed out that Valve has always experimented : with different types of development and : distribution. "With the various things we've : done -- Half-Life 2, the big splash game that takes : forever; or the episodic content; or the [Team : Fortress 2] updates -- as a company we try to explore : different ways of delivering value to the customer," he : explained. Full article: http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/06/e3_valve_talks_left_4_dead_2s.php Some of the bullet points I saw were directed at the design of the game itself (being daytime, in the South, ‘boring characters’, etc.), and were completely outside the scope of the main issue. That irritated me a bit…

Actually, now that I’ve checked out the page again, it looks like they trimmed all the fat I was bitching about and actually got right down to the important parts. Excellent. Now I can join the group and not feel stupid. ;)

Anyway, I was a bit dismayed by one of Valve’s explanations saying they were simply trying out different distribution models:

: “There’s definitely not a change in policy,” said
: Leonard in response to Gamasutra’s inquiries as to
: whether this move represents a new direction for
: Valve’s multiplayer efforts.

: He pointed out that Valve has always experimented
: with different types of development and
: distribution. “With the various things we’ve
: done — Half-Life 2, the big splash game that takes
: forever; or the episodic content; or the [Team
: Fortress 2] updates — as a company we try to explore
: different ways of delivering value to the customer,” he
: explained.

Full article: http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/06/e3_valve_talks_left_4_dead_2s.php

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