Less Is More Part 2

March 1, 2007
Tags: , , ,

Introduction
Having ‘more’ of everything in a game does not necessarily make it a better game. I’ve spoken about this before with Paraworld and this topic has come up again, this time with Supreme Commander (SC). I was a big fan of Total Annihilation, SC’s spiritual predecessor; however this game seems to have added more complexity in all the wrong places. Quite a few people I’ve spoken to like SC so I thought I’d put down my thoughts to let them know why I am having trouble enjoying it.

2D vs 3D
So why does SC seem to be so much more complex than TA? Part of it comes from having a 3D world, with different camera angles, zooming etc. In a 2D fixed view, artists can create units and know exactly what the player will look like on the screen in the final product. With complete freedom of movement and zooming units appear from tiny dots to huge models taking up the entire screen. This makes it difficult for artists to make each and every unit look different from the others at every angle. If all the units look fairly similar from afar, players have to zoom in to a certain point just to tell what type of unit they are looking at.

Another problem with this is that I spend most of my time in SC zooming in and out. Having the mini-map as part of the world map is a good idea in principle, however it means that instead of just clicking on the mini-map to move to a different area I have to zoom out, move the mouse possibly the entire length of the screen then zoom in again. I much prefer Company of Heroes’ (CoH) approach where a single click brings up the mini-map and all units are represented as small icons showing exactly what type of unit they are. SC tries this however with so many units there aren’t enough icons to differentiate them. The highest fidelity you end up with is the type of unit (air, land or sea) and its attack type (anti-air, ground etc).

Too many units
There are two parts to this problem:

1. Too many different types of units
2. Too many units to control at once

The human brain can only track a finite number of things at once. Having 10-20 units in most RTS games is hard enough to deal with, but having hundreds of units is just unmanageable. The player stops caring about their individual units and starts treating them as groups. Why bother having so many if you will be viewing them most of the time as a whole bunch of icons that move across a 2D map?

Having so many different types of units means that units become obsolete. Why have so many unit types if a lot of them don’t get built for the majority of the game. Wouldn’t it be better to have a smaller set of units that are utilized throughout a game? I’d rather see a smaller set of units with more strategic options for each unit.

Upgrades, Upgrades, Upgrades
SC has gone crazy with the upgrades. Most structures each have to be upgraded individually to get any benefits. What’s wrong with abstracting this away to have upgrades affect all of that particular building/unit type? It seems crazy to spend quite a large amount of game time going around and checking which mines have been upgraded making sure none have been missed. Also, why 3 levels of upgrades? Why not 2? This kind of complexity seems to be in the game just for the sake of it.

UI
I’m also a fan of less UI in games. The first thing you notice in SC is the overwhelming interface. Resolutions have gone up quite a bit since TA, however it seems that less of the screen is actually taken up by the 3D world. At the low resolution I must run the game (on my 6800GT) it seems as though almost half the screen is taken up by the UI, and most of this is just the background image. Surely they could have reduced some of the complexity by hiding it from the user with automation of context sensitive UI.

Resources
For those that like Supreme Commander, I can already hear what you’re going to say:

“But Doolwind, they’ve managed to keep it down to 2 resources, even Company of Heroes had 3″.

I agree they’ve done well to keep them down to 2 in with today’s “more resources = better game” delusion many developers have. The problem here is how they use these resources. When I go to build something, I have take into account how much mass and energy it costs to build; then how much it will use once it’s finished. If I upgrade my mass extractor, I have to do some math in my head to calculate how much mass I’ll lose while it shuts down to upgrade, then how much it takes to actually build the thing. I’ll have to make sure I don’t upgrade too many at once or I’ll have a shortage meaning the upgrade takes longer etc*. Another problem is the fact that some units take resources to fire their weapons. This wasn’t a real problem in TA; however with of SC’s other complexities and now even more units that can eat resources it becomes unmanageable quickly.

*I am aware that you can pause the upgrade; however it seems they fixed the effect of the problem (players often make a bad decision) rather than the cause (that the resource model is too complex).

Conclusion
While Supreme Commander isn’t terrible, I’m trying hard to enjoy it, but so far I haven’t. I’ve did buy it however I’m sure it’ll probably be on my shelf and I’ll be back to playing CoH in a short time. I love my complex/deep strategy games; however I love the complexity in the right places. Players should be choosing the arcs of fire or types of units to build to counter the enemy; not remembering whether they have 20 mini-assault anti-air amphibious attack tanks or 30 of them. The idea behind SC is a grand one, and I wish it had worked, I really do, however it didn’t. Maybe it would have been better to build some decent AI that could actually manage the hundreds of units. If I have to watch another of my anti-air units run up and stand next to an enemy ground unit they can’t even attack or accidentally win a game because the enemy commander is so stupid it just stands there until it’s destroyed, I think I’ll scream.

Share:
  • Digg
  • Reddit
  • Facebook
  • del.icio.us
  • DZone
  • LinkedIn
  • email

Find Us On Facebook

Filed under:
Game Development, Games by Doolwind

  • fucrate

    I think that your problem stems from your love of CoH. All the problems you bring up, the upgrading, the number of units, the 3D-ness of the game are all things which I adore about SC. And while the UI is huge, and being able to change its size in config files does not make up for it, I play with a massive resolution which really helps the problem.

    The thing is CoH and SC are perfect examples of the splitting of the RTS genre, CoH is for the small-scale tactical battles which require huge micromanaging and skillful use of troops while SC represents the polar opposite, where caring about individual units will make you lose a match.

    And for the record, the resource model is not complex, and in fact it’s pretty much exactly the same as TA, you just have to get into the groove and find the sweet spot that keeps your economy running without crashing to a halt.

  • http://www.dats.co.za/blog CmdrDats

    I agree with some of the complexity issues, but I have to say that I thoroughly enjoy the excessive complexity. It makes for a ‘Go’ kind of game, where you have to pick which battles you want to focus on to win.

    I enjoy the fact that even if I have a smaller army, but I manage them properly, I’ll be able to win the battle. That might mean sacrifice in other areas of the map, but that’s just one of the strategic choices I have to make.

    Supreme Commander, I think, will probably not appeal to everybody, but there are a lot of players out there who will soak in the increased complexity like a sponge and love it to bits.

    With the tank AI – ye. They should sort that out :P

  • http://www.runesofavalon.com Roman Budzowski

    I’ve read a good comment that applies here: it looks like computer is enjoying the game more than I do :D

  • http://www.arcadetown.com Joe Lieberman

    It sounds to me like you’re pissed off that you’re no longer in this game’s target demographic. Mind you, I haven’t been in an RTSs target demographic since the original Command and Conquer… frankly the entire genre annoys me.

    Anyway, that is the nature of things. They evolve and this one evolved in a direction of added complexity that makes it (to you) less fun. But trust me, there are a lot of people who thrive on this level of retardation. No offense to those who enjoy it.

    This ignores the AI problems- those are just bad. But anyway, the idea that you TRY to enjoy a game is a sign that the game is in a genre you used to enjoy and now aren’t and can’t figure out why :)

    -Joe

  • http://www.doolwind.com Doolwind

    Joe-
    You could be right there. I’m finding the same problem with the latest Command & Conquer at the moment. What gives me hope is games like Company of Heroes and Medieval: Total War. I think the RTS genre has fractured into a number of different style’s and I’m just finding that quite a number of them aren’t to my liking.

  • Nogame

    SupCom is a solid RTS game IMO.

    It is not CoH, it is not small scale tactical, it’s large scale base-oriented.
    Within that specific RTS genre it’s a really good game. I had issues with it at first, but after playing all three campaigns through and a few skirmishes, I found it fits it’s role quite well, and is a good overall game.
    I enjoyed the zoom feature, and continue to try that zoom on other games :) which of course is frustrating. You can’t just click the map to scroll to a location in SupCom, because zoom in/out is necessary given the scope. A simple scroll would not suffice, that’s why they have the zoom/scroll.

    My biggest gripe is that I want to see the more of the good graphics, since playing the game is usually at a zoomed-out level, I find I don’t get to enjoy what artists no doubt spent a lot of time getting to look good. Likewise, I don’t develop an attachment to units or groups, I can’t see them.

    The single player campaigns I found to be good, and fairly long. After one of the three factions, playing on hard level for the other two, it was pretty intense at times. The shields around bases, artillery of various kinds, the tech trees each lending to differnet tactics, the tech4 super units, it was worth the price for me. SuPCom has enormous armies, and lots of base options, quite a different flavor than the relic RTS games. As some others pointed out, the genre has split, necessarily to differentiate itself, and each style will appeal to different groups. The key here I would strongly urge is to try, throughout a game, to NOT compare it to another game. It can ruin your experience (with any new experience…think a new CD, if you keep comparing all songs to the one hit song that you liked, you won’t enjoy them. Once you listen a few times, and apprecitate them independantly, you may find they were great all along…or indeed, that they do suck.)

    Pros:
    Solid game, good single player campaign
    Three factions, and land/sea/air units, 3(+1) tech levels
    Lots of units, lots of base stuff, lots of tech
    super units
    interface

    Cons
    Some AI quirks (don’t use formations for naval, for instance)
    Much of the game is played zoomed out, don’t get to enjoy the fights
    Some don’t like the fact that it’s a base-race to win
    Skirmish AI max difficulty is weak, needs to be much harder

    That’s my take on it. I just did Dawn of War (the one with the necrons), and it was also a good game, but different. Warcraft, for instance, was squad-based but to me the graphics are silly and the game-play is more like an action/RPG than an RTS, and I found no real strategy involved. SuPCom is squarely a solid RTS, and obviously differentiates itself with the large squad/complexity it offers, and on those, it did well. It was not a to-die-for like half-life2, but it was certainly a solid game.

  • http://www.doolwind.com Doolwind

    Hi NoGame,

    Thanks for your indepth review! I’m still hearing a lot of good things about Supreme Commander and would like to give it a second chance. My favourite part of most RTS games is multiplayer, however my GPGNet stopped working one day and I haven’t been able to use it since. Once I do figure it out I’ve got a few people waiting to play me so I’ll give it another go.

    I agree they are two completely different games and there should be room for both in a gamers life, I just tend to like the feel of the closer in more tactical CoH at the moment.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/Supreme-Commander-Hardware-Requirements rob

    New supreme commander patch lets players use Strategic Zoom on each other.A new update for Supreme Commander’s matchmaking service makes its debut on GameSpot today, offering players a visual representation of the supremecommander …

  • Tuna

    Yo Doolwind, interesting thoughts on the game. I like SC, it gets to big and slow at times, but it feels very acomplishing to see 8 Galactic Collosus bots rampaging >:D Either way! I do agree with what you say but I am wondering about the screenshot you have here of the Spiderbots, that does not look like the in game graphics it looks almost like an concept art piece? Can you tell me where or when you found it? Perhaps it is a pre-release photo? Thank you in advance and sorry if my english is bad :) I will check back here from time to time to see :)

  • http://www.doolwind.com Doolwind

    Tuna-
    You’re correct, I’m fairly sure it’s a pre-release photo. This was one of the first photos I saw and got quite excited. The game itself seemed nothing like this though, and that is part of the problem I found. If things were that clear and understandable then it may have worked, but I found when zoomed out that far everything was tiny and either an icon or not easily unrecognizable.

  • Tuna

    Yes most definatley, when you are zoomed out it makes things feel quite disconnected. Sold as being able to ‘see the whole theator of war’ ends up as ‘see the whole myriad of representation icons’. It makes for an odd experience. The other night on a LAN game with 2 friends I made 35 nuke silos with a single missile a piece (heavily modded game) in about 40 minutes, just as they had gotten to T3 units and started land/air skirmishes with each other I sent them about 12 nukes a piece to the base. :) I spent most of the game zoomed out and built mabye 10 combative units the whole game, much to the ire of my 2 friends who were quite angry and made sure to yell at me over ventrilo. Shame shame, Haa haa!

    Tell me DW, Have you played the half-life 2 expansion: Portal? Now that is a game worthy of a conversation! :)

  • http://www.doolwind.com Doolwind

    Tuna-
    You’re quite correct. I’ll add it to my list of articles in the works (and bump it up to the front). I’m halfway through the game (after 30 mins) and wanted to stop to savor the experience. It certainly requires a good discussion and it’s a direction in game development I’d rather not see in the future.

    I’ve just reinstalled BF2 (at the request of everyone at work) and after all this discussion I think I’ll reinstall Supreme Commander as well and give it another go. My main problem is that the MP client program doesn’t work, so if I can get that working I’ll give it another go.

  • Tuna

    DW,
    You confuse me, you say to savor the experience and would also rather not see this type of development in the future? Im not sure exactly what you mean, but I can understand both opinions because somehow I have them both. Portal is a cool game and a bad game, for every good thing I’ve found about it I have found something that seems to stifle it. I would recomend it to others, but not everyone will quite ‘get’ what portals about I believe. The game gets cool and then it ends, and I was left screaming because the lack of story tie ins… but thats me :/ Its kind of like movies with subtitles, Some people read the words in order to watch the movie and others believe that no movie is worth that much reading heh.

    BF2, awesomeness. Are you and your friends mabye getting ramped up for COD4 like myself and mine? The SP demo is delicious :)

    SupCop, Keep in mind that on November 6th or 7th the first expansion for SC is released and although I am not seeking to confirm or start a rumor, I have heard it revamps alot of the gameplay.

    Also, I recomend Hamachi for online games with a screwed over MP service (EA + RTS = just that), although it would just be easier to have a working MP service, Hamachi is a limited but workable alternative. Im assuming you know what Hamachi is, if not I’ll be happy to provide all the information I know :)

    Untill later, good bye!